Hi All,

Anyone from the US here ? :)

I'm just wondering, how glider instructors are payed in the US (and if there are any considerable differences here and there) - I'm a glider instructor with an EASA license, and I'm thinking about making an FAA conversion in the future, and I'm curious to see whether it's worth the effort.

Cheers from Europe :)

Zoltan (a.k.a. "Rocker")

It varies widely based on whether you are talking about commercial operations or clubs, and it also varies from club to club. In some clubs instruction is free (or included in the club membership) and instructors are expected to donate their time. In others, instructors are independent contractors employed by the students directly or by the club. In commercial operations instructors can either be independent contractors or employees of the operation.

Independent contractors employed directly by students might get something in the range of $40 to $60 per hour, but there is wide variation even in that. Employees of a commercial operation might get something like half of that.

Most instructors (but not all) are doing it as a sideline. Very few depend on instruction earnings as their primary source of income.

So the bottom line is that it depends totally on where you might be working, and there really isn't a "standard".

Lynn Alley
"2KA"
Chief Instructor, Utah Soaring Association

On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 4:48:29 PM UTC-4, Zoltán Lengyel wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Anyone from the US here ? :)
>
> I'm just wondering, how glider instructors are payed in the US (and if there are any considerable differences here and there) - I'm a glider instructor with an EASA license, and I'm thinking about making an FAA conversion in the future, and I'm curious to see whether it's worth the effort.
>
> Cheers from Europe :)
>
> Zoltan (a.k.a. "Rocker")

Last I saw, our club "paid" (not in cash but credits against monthly dues or our own flying) $2US per training/ride flight EXCEPT for junior members which are "free".
A commercial operation maybe you make a small amount, not likely to support a house/family.
Old joke, how do you make a small fortune in aviation....start with a large fortune.
Good years, I made enough with rides and instruction (club) to cover monthly dues and my tows.....I still paid for my gas/car wear getting to/from the airport (about 35 miles each way).

On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 1:48:29 PM UTC-7, Zoltán Lengyel wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Anyone from the US here ? :)
>
> I'm just wondering, how glider instructors are payed in the US (and if there are any considerable differences here and there) - I'm a glider instructor with an EASA license, and I'm thinking about making an FAA conversion in the future, and I'm curious to see whether it's worth the effort.
>
> Cheers from Europe :)
>
> Zoltan (a.k.a. "Rocker")

If you want to earn a living (as opposed to part-time employment) as a flight instructor in the US you will have to do most of your instructing in power planes. You can do that year-around. There a few commercial glider operations that operate nearly year-around like Seminole Lake, but your options would be much better if you did both power and glider. If you are a glider-only instructor (CFIG) I would stay in Europe.

Tom

> If you want to earn a living (as opposed to part-time employment) as a flight instructor in the US you will have to do most of your instructing in power planes. You can do that year-around. There a few commercial glider operations that operate nearly year-around like Seminole Lake, but your options would be much better if you did both power and glider. If you are a glider-only instructor (CFIG) I would stay in Europe.
>
> Tom

Dear Lynn, Charlie, and Tom - a big thankyou for your informative and kind answers, they're all helpful! If everything goes as planned, soon (this fall) I'll have my "CFIG" (which is FI (S) in Europe/EASA :) ) extended to TMG (touring motorglider) instructor which I also fly, and then the next step will be a PPL refresher training (something like 6-8-10 hours - I used to fly the 210PS Zlin Z-142, but lately only on gliders and motorgliders). A motorglider is basically a more simple piston plane, in which you can cut the engine and continue with soaring :) - and in case of an engine failure you have about twice as much time and distance to find a suitable field for emergency landing.

The idea would be to find a place (basically anywhere in the US) where I could start working as a glider and motorglider instructor (and be paid for that), and then make a Sea Rating (maybe in Florida? I already know Clearwaterseaplanes from there; but there might be other places, too), and then additional ratings (IFR, multiengine, AG etc, backcountry /"bush" flying; covering the training costs with my work) - and I'd be absolutely fine sleeping in a motorhome or caravan at the airfield.

In fact I already contacted SSA.org, to find out WHERE they might need glider/motorglider instructors, but, although they absolutely kindly and helpfully responded, too, they said they didn't have information about this, so I should try this mailing list. Which - tadaaaa :) - already seems to have taken me a half step forward . :) This whole idea/plan is not for next week anyway, so to speak (and we'll see how this pandemic situation goes), but for next spring/summer or so I could already imagine doing it. (OR, if there's a more urgent need somewhere, we can certainly talk about it sooner.) It's also important to mention that under Part 61 I'm close to being eligible for a CPL, but I'm not really interested in ATPL and big airliners, I'd like to stick with doing instructions, mosquito/cropdusting, and firefighting would be also a "very cool" challenge later on.

So, apart from continuing our conversation in this mailing list here (later on maybe other nice folks will also see this conversation and join in), do you have any hints as to how I could find those places where they'd pay a glider/motorglider instructor ? (It could be also/partly "in kind", like providing accomodation and my further flight trainings.)

Thank you once again, and if you need to know anything about european things, you're absolutely welcome to ask (I'll do my best to answer), either publicly here, or in private (as you prefer).

Best regards ,
Zoltan (a.k.a. "Rocker")

Dear Lynn, Charlie, and Tom - a big thankyou for your informative and friendly answers, they're all helpful! If everything goes as planned, soon (this fall) I'll have my "CFIG" (which is FI (S) in Europe :) ) extended to TMG (touring motorglider) instructor, and then the next step will be a PPL refresher training (something like 6-8-10 hours - I used to fly the 210PS constant speed prop low wing aerobatic fixed (nose) gear Zlin Z-142, but lately I flew only gliders and motorgliders). Well, for me motorglider is the best (I fly the Scheibe SF-25 "Falke" which is the German word for "Falcon"), because it's basically a quite simple piston plane (although more difficult to land than a C-150/152, because it's taildragger), in which you can cut the engine and continue with soaring if the weather permits - and in case of an engine failure you have about twice as much time and distance to find a suitable field for emergency landing. (And it's even cheaper to operate than a 2-seater Cessna.)

The idea would be to find a place (basically anywhere in the US) where I could start working as a glider and motorglider instructor (and be paid for that), and then make a Sea Rating (maybe in Florida? I already know Clearwaterseaplanes from there; but there might be other places, too), and then additional ratings (IFR, multiengine, AG etc, backcountry /"bush" flying; covering the training costs with my work) - and I'd be absolutely fine sleeping in a motorhome or caravan at the airfield. I could even imagine giving up my flat, coming with a motorhome and a big trailer (with my SF-34 and SF-25 in it).

In fact I already contacted SSA.org, to find out WHERE they might need glider/motorglider instructors, but, although they absolutely kindly and helpfully responded, too, they said they didn't have information about this, so I should try this mailing list. Which - tadaaaa :) - already seems to have taken me a half step forward . :) This whole idea/plan is not for next week anyway, so to speak (and we'll see how this pandemic situation goes), but for next spring/summer or so I could already imagine doing it. (OR, if there's a more urgent need somewhere, we can certainly talk about it sooner.) It's also important to mention that under Part 61 I'm close to being eligible for a CPL, but I'm not really interested in ATPL and big airliners, I'd like to stick with doing instructions, mosquito/cropdusting, and firefighting would be also a "very cool" challenge later on.

So, apart from continuing our conversation in this mailing list here (later on maybe other nice folks will also see this conversation and join in), do you have any hints as to how I could find those places where they'd pay a glider/motorglider instructor ? (It could be also/partly "in kind", like providing accomodation and my further flight trainings.)

Thank you once again, and if you need to know anything about european things, you're absolutely welcome to ask (I'll do my best to answer), either publicly here, or in private (as you prefer).

Best regards ,
Zoltan (a.k.a. "Rocker")

Hello Zoltan,

You might also look into pipeline patrol.Â* These folks fly low level
along gas and oil pipelines looking for evidence of leaks.Â* That might
be a lot of fun in the beginning but it might get old in a hurry.

Good luck in your endeavors!

Dan

On 9/13/2020 7:39 AM, Zoltán Lengyel wrote:
>> If you want to earn a living (as opposed to part-time employment) as a flight instructor in the US you will have to do most of your instructing in power planes. You can do that year-around. There a few commercial glider operations that operate nearly year-around like Seminole Lake, but your options would be much better if you did both power and glider. If you are a glider-only instructor (CFIG) I would stay in Europe.
>>
>> Tom
> Dear Lynn, Charlie, and Tom - a big thankyou for your informative and kind answers, they're all helpful! If everything goes as planned, soon (this fall) I'll have my "CFIG" (which is FI (S) in Europe/EASA :) ) extended to TMG (touring motorglider) instructor which I also fly, and then the next step will be a PPL refresher training (something like 6-8-10 hours - I used to fly the 210PS Zlin Z-142, but lately only on gliders and motorgliders). A motorglider is basically a more simple piston plane, in which you can cut the engine and continue with soaring :) - and in case of an engine failure you have about twice as much time and distance to find a suitable field for emergency landing.
>
> The idea would be to find a place (basically anywhere in the US) where I could start working as a glider and motorglider instructor (and be paid for that), and then make a Sea Rating (maybe in Florida? I already know Clearwaterseaplanes from there; but there might be other places, too), and then additional ratings (IFR, multiengine, AG etc, backcountry /"bush" flying; covering the training costs with my work) - and I'd be absolutely fine sleeping in a motorhome or caravan at the airfield.
>
> In fact I already contacted SSA.org, to find out WHERE they might need glider/motorglider instructors, but, although they absolutely kindly and helpfully responded, too, they said they didn't have information about this, so I should try this mailing list. Which - tadaaaa :) - already seems to have taken me a half step forward . :) This whole idea/plan is not for next week anyway, so to speak (and we'll see how this pandemic situation goes), but for next spring/summer or so I could already imagine doing it. (OR, if there's a more urgent need somewhere, we can certainly talk about it sooner.) It's also important to mention that under Part 61 I'm close to being eligible for a CPL, but I'm not really interested in ATPL and big airliners, I'd like to stick with doing instructions, mosquito/cropdusting, and firefighting would be also a "very cool" challenge later on.
>
> So, apart from continuing our conversation in this mailing list here (later on maybe other nice folks will also see this conversation and join in), do you have any hints as to how I could find those places where they'd pay a glider/motorglider instructor ? (It could be also/partly "in kind", like providing accomodation and my further flight trainings.)
>
> Thank you once again, and if you need to know anything about european things, you're absolutely welcome to ask (I'll do my best to answer), either publicly here, or in private (as you prefer).
>
> Best regards ,
> Zoltan (a.k.a. "Rocker")
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Dan, 5J

Hi Dan,
Thanks for your input. Actually I keep watching job postings, and within that, pipeline patrol, but most of them require 1500 PIC time with experience in complex airspaces and low level flight, CPL and IR, and usually they hire locals (they provide no help in relocation). But in a general sense I'd absolutely be interested in such pipeline work (if I'd meet the requirements - but I'm afraid I don't). So, again, the best would be to find a place where I could work as a glider/motorglider instructor and go from there. :)

Zoltan

On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 5:15:24 PM UTC-5, Zoltán Lengyel wrote:
> Hi Dan,
> Thanks for your input. Actually I keep watching job postings, and within that, pipeline patrol, but most of them require 1500 PIC time with experience in complex airspaces and low level flight, CPL and IR, and usually they hire locals (they provide no help in relocation). But in a general sense I'd absolutely be interested in such pipeline work (if I'd meet the requirements - but I'm afraid I don't). So, again, the best would be to find a place where I could work as a glider/motorglider instructor and go from there. :)
>
> Zoltan
A much bigger issue is how you expect to get a visa to the US to be able to work here. That is going to be a Hugh challenge.

On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:34:23 PM UTC-6, Mike Schumann wrote:
> On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 5:15:24 PM UTC-5, Zoltán Lengyel wrote:
> > Hi Dan,
> > Thanks for your input. Actually I keep watching job postings, and within that, pipeline patrol, but most of them require 1500 PIC time with experience in complex airspaces and low level flight, CPL and IR, and usually they hire locals (they provide no help in relocation). But in a general sense I'd absolutely be interested in such pipeline work (if I'd meet the requirements - but I'm afraid I don't). So, again, the best would be to find a place where I could work as a glider/motorglider instructor and go from there. :)
> >
> > Zoltan
> A much bigger issue is how you expect to get a visa to the US to be able to work here. That is going to be a Hugh challenge.

I've been a member of a club where they charged (the club) $20/hr for the instructor; and I've taken lessons privately from a private outfit where they charged $75/hr for gliders. It really does vary widely.

On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 8:34:23 PM UTC-7, Mike Schumann wrote:
> On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 5:15:24 PM UTC-5, Zoltán Lengyel wrote:
> > Hi Dan,
> > Thanks for your input. Actually I keep watching job postings, and within that, pipeline patrol, but most of them require 1500 PIC time with experience in complex airspaces and low level flight, CPL and IR, and usually they hire locals (they provide no help in relocation). But in a general sense I'd absolutely be interested in such pipeline work (if I'd meet the requirements - but I'm afraid I don't). So, again, the best would be to find a place where I could work as a glider/motorglider instructor and go from there. :)
> >
> > Zoltan
> A much bigger issue is how you expect to get a visa to the US to be able to work here. That is going to be a Hugh challenge.

You need the proper visa to take flight training in the US. See this link:
https://www.aopa.org/advocacy/pilots/alien-flight-training-program/visa-information

This link indicates you might need a permanent resident visa to work in aviation in the US, but it is not authoritative:
https://www.airlinepilot.life/t/work-for-foreign-pilot-in-us/16077

On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 8:34:23 PM UTC-7, Mike Schumann wrote:
> On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 5:15:24 PM UTC-5, Zoltán Lengyel wrote:
> > Hi Dan,
> > Thanks for your input. Actually I keep watching job postings, and within that, pipeline patrol, but most of them require 1500 PIC time with experience in complex airspaces and low level flight, CPL and IR, and usually they hire locals (they provide no help in relocation). But in a general sense I'd absolutely be interested in such pipeline work (if I'd meet the requirements - but I'm afraid I don't). So, again, the best would be to find a place where I could work as a glider/motorglider instructor and go from there. :)
> >
> > Zoltan
> A much bigger issue is how you expect to get a visa to the US to be able to work here. That is going to be a Hugh challenge.

and there are people in the US who make their living sorting out visas for situations like the one described:
https://www.foxrothschild.com/content/uploads/2020/01/BRO_Immigration-and-Aviation_Pages.pdf

On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 5:15:24 PM UTC-5, Zoltán Lengyel wrote:
> Hi Dan,
> Thanks for your input. Actually I keep watching job postings, and within that, pipeline patrol, but most of them require 1500 PIC time with experience in complex airspaces and low level flight, CPL and IR, and usually they hire locals (they provide no help in relocation). But in a general sense I'd absolutely be interested in such pipeline work (if I'd meet the requirements - but I'm afraid I don't). So, again, the best would be to find a place where I could work as a glider/motorglider instructor and go from there. :)
>
> Zoltan


Stay on your journey, keep working on ratings and building time. Your description of an acceptable life style is quite that of a popper by American standards. I have a CFIG and ASEL AMEL Instrument. I get letters in the mail monthly asking me to come flight instruct for commercial operators(ASEL work mostly), there are many other flying opportunities which pay much more than this. This would be a great opportunity to take and then move on to a higher paying job and enjoy soaring for a hobby rather than a job.

Just an alternate $.02

Wes

Hi Wes,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts/info/experience with me/us ! Well, the thing is.. ( hmmm, how shall I say this briefly..?!) .. you maybe/probably don't know my country, how things go here... (small country and quite dictatoristic leadership. If someone is not expressedly from their 'circles'... , well... :-/ ).

In order to build time first of all I'd need some income (to pay my bills and keep me afloat, and to be able to keep flying). These days for instance, I'm sending out curriculums as a truck driver or a groundwork machine operator... (and hope to be hired). That's one of the reasons why I'm curious to see whether there might be a place where I could get started (employed) with the experience/skills that I currently have in aviation. (AND also because I believe that in order to become a good pilot, it's very useful and practical to start as a glider pilot. :) ) In other words I'll find "something" for survival and in the meantime keep building ratings and time just as you suggested, BUT it would be even better (nicer) if I wouldn't need to waste my precious Time with truck driving (or such), so I'm trying to gather information and build connections.("Networking".) But, certainly I do understand that we all need to do something that our society needs - and as long as there's an acceptable balance with making money ("with something") and doing what I enjoy, I'm allright :)

Best,
Zoltan